The Well-Grounded Overseas Experience

English Version

Introduction

When the global spread of artistic activity slows or stalls, artists have more time to reflect on the paths they have taken. The practical overseas experience accumulated by Chinese musicians living abroad offers important lessons for the future communication of traditional Chinese art. In this dialogue, Hong Wang and Kui Dong share reflections on agents, grants, commissions, cultural systems, and the question of how Chinese traditions can genuinely enter the field of attention of another culture.

The Well-Grounded Overseas Experience: A Dialogue on the Intercultural Communication of Traditional Chinese Music

Zang Na: Professor Dong and Mr. Wang are both Chinese musicians living overseas. I recently spoke with Professor Dong about online concerts and online art. Mr. Wang has devoted himself to sharing Chinese folk and traditional music abroad. Today let us talk about your experiences in this area.

Kui Dong: I have known Hong Wang for a long time, since my student days in the United States. At that time, he was already performing and teaching traditional Chinese music here and had founded an ensemble. His ensemble was one of the few Chinese music groups in the United States creating new works through dialogue between East and West. Cross-genre experimentation became more common in China only in the past decade or so, but Chinese musicians overseas began this work much earlier. So I would like Mr. Wang to speak mainly, and I will add comments.

Hong Wang: I taught in China and later worked at the Jiangsu Provincial Research Institute of Culture and Arts, where I researched folk music. In the early 1990s, after coming to the United States, I began organizing a Chinese music ensemble with immigrant musicians. At first, I brought programs and promotional materials to the Western Arts Alliance showcase, hoping to sell concerts. I went for four consecutive years and did not sell a single concert. Later I discovered that the system operated through agents and presenters. Many agents met informally, often in bars, and arranged touring schedules according to their calendars. Without entering that system, it was very difficult to tour.

Zang Na: So even traditional Chinese music needs its own agents in a commercial society like the United States?

Hong Wang: Yes. This was a major shock to my thinking. It gave me a new understanding of how to develop Chinese music in the West. To enter the view of mainstream Western society, we must first connect with its rules. It is not enough to perform traditional works only for ourselves. We need composers to create new works that combine Chinese and Western instruments, presenting ourselves through sounds that are partly familiar to them but used in different ways. I also learned how to apply for arts funding. With foundation support, we could commission composers and organize performances.

At first, I collaborated with composer Situ Gang on funding applications. His experience taught me a great deal. I listened to many review panels for arts projects and learned that reviewers came from many sectors of society. If they had a connection to a group, they would recuse themselves. I also learned that a proposal is not judged only by beautiful writing; reviewers first look at whether the budget is realistic. If you do not know how to use money, they will question the feasibility of the project. Since then, I have paid close attention to budgets.

Zang Na: This is how the arts operate in a commercial society.

Hong Wang: These experiences taught me several things. First, when promoting Chinese culture overseas, one must follow local systems to solve funding problems. Second, performance content cannot simply promote one’s own culture; media exposure and public relations are also important. In other words, focusing only on the work itself makes it very difficult to enter the mainstream.

Kui Dong: Especially if one performs only traditional works.

Hong Wang: Over time, our ensemble gained recognition and supporters. We received annual arts grants from the City of San Francisco and the State of California, which provided important support. After receiving a National Arts Fund grant, I commissioned Professor Dong to write new music for us and invited the Del Sol String Quartet to collaborate. I also worked with groups such as Citywinds and Earplay, looking for opportunities to present Chinese traditional and new music in different communities. We wanted people to see that our ensemble was not only doing its own ethnic tradition, but was actively seeking collaboration with mainstream and multicultural communities.

Zang Na: It seems intercultural communication must pay attention to the needs and characteristics of the receiving audience.

Hong Wang: To enter an unfamiliar cultural environment, one cannot rely on imagination or remain only within a familiar cultural circle. One must learn, respect, accept, and integrate into the other culture. Only then can there be exchange and cultural output. For national-level cultural exchange, China already has many years of experience, but from the perspective of artists who have lived overseas, the key question is how to introduce familiar works to unfamiliar audiences. Planners and producers need to think from the perspective of broad culture and human resonance.

Many cultural exchange activities have relied on free or symbolic-fee performances abroad. Governments invest a great deal, but we must ask whether this allows our traditions to be truly seen and accepted by mainstream society. Many audiences say “very interesting,” but that phrase can be subtle. It does not always mean they will come again. The key is to show artistic quality and shared human values. We need to move toward commercial performance, cooperate with local agencies, and enter regular seasons.

Kui Dong: Sometimes “very interesting” may mean they did not actually enjoy it that much, but were too polite to say so.

Hong Wang: Intercultural communication cannot be wishful thinking. You cannot simply show up a few times and expect others to accept your culture. Good works can speak for themselves, but we also need artistic, commercial, and strategic planning. I worked with the Asian American Orchestra, whose musicians have multicultural backgrounds and understand what American culture responds to. Their music often incorporates Chinese elements while also being accepted by the Western mainstream.

Zang Na: You have also made many attempts yourself.

Hong Wang: Yes. One example is my work on the Hollywood animated series Kung Fu Panda. In 2007, an American film and television composer contacted me through social media asking whether I played erhu. Months later, he invited me to Los Angeles for a demo recording. After the trial, they decided to work with me. I later learned the project was an eighty-episode Kung Fu Panda animated series produced by DreamWorks and Nickelodeon.

At first, they used only erhu. I felt that did not fully express the visual atmosphere, so I suggested using other Chinese instruments. The composer did not know musicians for those instruments, so I showed him what I had. I brought out one instrument after another. Over several years, the score used thirty-two Chinese traditional and percussion instruments, including erhu, zhonghu, dizi, gaohu, sanxian, ruan, hulusi, bawu, and guqin.

Because the collaboration went well, Nickelodeon invited me to work on The Legend of Korra. That project drew on Asian cultural backgrounds, including Chinese, Korean, and Japanese elements. The composer wanted a different approach, using morin khuur, zhonghu, erhu, suona, and percussion. I did not necessarily play traditional melodies; often I played long tones or simple motifs. But Chinese elements had entered the mainstream Western film and television industry.

Over time, I introduced Chinese instruments to Hollywood composers. At first, many did not even know what erhu sounded like or what its range was. I explained which styles worked, how to write for the instruments, and where the instruments came from. Composer Jeremy Zuckerman once said in an interview that Hong Wang was not just a musician, but a music encyclopedia, and that working with me changed his thinking. Later, through these collaborators, I entered circles that included composers such as Bear McCreary, Christopher Young, Kevin Kiner, and Geoff Zanelli.

PANGEA is another example. It is a cross-cultural ensemble formed by three musicians from different backgrounds: Albert Chang, a Chinese American composer and film producer; Robert Chilingirian, an Armenian American guitarist; and me, bringing in Chinese traditional music. Our style grew from our different cultural backgrounds and world music elements. Chinese tradition may appear as an accent or as a main character, depending on the work. Once the mainstream recognizes you, your cultural elements can enter more naturally.

Kui Dong: So the overseas communication of Chinese traditional music first requires a change in mindset. Compared with piano or symphonic music, Chinese traditional music does not have the same cultural soil in the West. It must continually seek dialogue and opportunities for presentation.

Hong Wang: From the 1990s to 2008, I organized many concerts in San Francisco and gave more than a hundred school lecture-demonstrations. The goal was to place our music within their regular seasons. Wu Man is a very successful example; she entered a top agency and became a regular presence in mainstream American concert seasons.

Kui Dong: Wu Man once told me that many ideas still came from herself; the agency served as a bridge. We should recognize that in Western society, the commercial value of Chinese traditional music cannot easily compare with mainstream Western music.

Hong Wang: If you push too hard, it can backfire. Culture is like interpersonal communication. If you overemphasize yourself, you squeeze others. If you want recognition, first learn to integrate. I once asked Christopher Young how much erhu should be used in his music. He said one sound is enough, because that sound already represents your culture. The instrument itself speaks. We do not always need to announce “this is Chinese music.” Sometimes a single sound carries the culture.

Zang Na: Today’s conversation touches both method and posture in cultural communication. We must consider whether traditional music appears as an unchanged transplant, or as something adapted and integrated. And the posture matters: subtle influence can be the strongest.

Hong Wang: Stay low-key. Do your work well. That is how you truly influence others.

Originally published in Art Panorama, No. 5, 2021, pp. 84–89.